Women in the Pulpit
November 19, 2008
Another thing that’s very controversial in the church today is women teachers. Now I’m not going to even pull scripture on this, you’ll just have to send me a note to see what the Bible has to say about it, but women are not to be teaching men, or having any authority over men.
Understand I’m not against women teachers, just know who you’re supposed to be teaching. Other women. It would be a good idea for churches to have women ministries, where the pastor’s wife or so, teaches the other women who desire to come on their own special bible study night or something.
It doesn’t even make sense for a woman to be teaching a man. If the man’s the head of the household, what makes you think she’s telling him what to do? What type of household is that? Don’t let Destiny’s Child fool you, God never intended for a woman to be independent. He made woman for man and for the benefit of man. He also made woman out of man’s rib… how many people know that we don’t need our ribs to survive? So ladies, if you’re not offended, understand how rare and special it is to find a man that appreciates you and treats you good. Also know your role, and likewise a man needs to know his role so that the relationship can be prosperous.
Entry Filed under: Uncategorized. Tags: bible, children, christian, christianity, church, controversial, love, men, ministry, relationship, relationships, religion, roles, teaching, women.
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1. thefuerstshallbelast | November 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm
What about Priscilla? She taught Apollos. What about Junia in Romans? She was great among the apostles, who were primarily known as teachers and heralds of the gospel.
You cannot take a single text and make it the basis for such a teaching. Besides, there are good reasons to question the traditional reading of I Timothy 2 anyway.
It is also wrong to assume that the world or church is going to fall into some kind of anarchy or chaos if women and men are equal. This is not so – in fact, recent polls by Barna have demonstrated that Christian marriages that are Egalitarianism are just as happy and successful as those that are based in male headship.
Equality is not the same thing as independence.
2. chrish103 | November 20, 2008 at 7:37 pm
As for Priscilla, the Bible says that her and Aquilla (her husband) taught Paul, I see nothing in there saying she taught Apollos, and Junia is only mentioned once in the Bible and Paul just says to greet her.
And I’m not running with a single text, I’m running with several passages of the new testament. If you believe so much that women can teach men, than take 1 Timothy 2:11 – 14 which reads, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
or 1 Corinthians 11:7 – 10 which reads, “For a man ought not to wear anything on his head [in church], for he is the image and [reflected] glory of God [his function of government reflects the majesty of the divine Rule]; but woman is [the expression of] man’s glory (majesty, preeminence). For man was not [created] from woman, but woman from man; Neither was man created on account of or for the benefit of woman, but woman on account of and for the benefit of man. Therefore she should [be subject to his authority and should] have a covering on her head [as a token, a symbol, of her submission to authority, [c]that she may show reverence as do] the angels [and not displease them].”
You can’t get much clearer than that. And why would we question it? It’s interesting that something as plain and clear as that is questionable which is another problem among the Body of Christ today, people take the Word and make it out what they want it to be, not for what it is, and if it’s not something they agree on, it’s questionable. When did you become God and re-write the Bible?
3. chrish103 | November 20, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I also forgot to mention that Junia was a man.
4. thefuerstshallbelast | November 29, 2008 at 2:50 am
Thanks for the response, brother.
First, there is no record in ancient Rome that the name Junia was a man’s name. None.
Second, I think the issues are much more complicated than you are allowing for. Even if I Tim. 2 said women can’t preach (which I don’t think it does and neither do a lot of egalitarian scholars) we are still a long way from proving it is normative for the church everywhere at all time. Paul is dealing with a specific issue in a specific congregation.
Third, I Cor. 11 is notoriously difficult to interpret (from both sides of the deabate), so again, the issue there is more complicated than you are allowing for.
Fourth, Luke’s order is important – it is significant that Luke lists Priscilla first. Almost every commentary you read will note this.
But all this is ok. I mean, as brothers and sisters in Christ, we can disagree on things. I just want us to not simplify a really, really complex issue.
5. Tom | November 30, 2008 at 11:32 pm
There is an exception to woman not being able to lead, as I see it, and that is when a man doesn’t want to step up and do the leading! Look at Deborah in Judges. Perhaps Junia as the previous comments have mentioned, was in a church and stepped up to lead because no man wanted to and she knew that the gospel message needed to get out in her particular town [Apostle simply means messenger, so in a sense, anyone who brings a message of any sort is an apostle.]
In the end, I agree with thefuerstshallbelast. This is a complex issue, both sides of the argument have respected scholars on each side. We all, as Christians, need to be sure that we discuss these things in love and not bash one another. Lord knows that this happens a lot in Christendom and it probably is a reason that many people don’t want to come to Christ…they see us bickering all the time!
6. chrish103 | December 1, 2008 at 12:39 am
Hey everybody! Tom, I agree, people may be turned off by the bickering, and the aggressive teachings such as, “Do this because it’s right.” But I don’t believe that we should be pushovers when it comes to what is simple and right.
For instance, you all say that Junia was a woman, but from my concordance, and checking on biblegateway, the scripture says,
“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” So I looked up the word kinsmen, which comes from kinsman, and it means a male relative. That was from the King James Version
In the Amplified version it reads, “Remember me to Andronicus and Junias, my tribal kinsmen and once my fellow prisoners. They are men held in high esteem among the apostles, who also were in Christ before I was.”
So you see why I can’t just go with what someone says, when it says something else in the Bible, that’s clear and straight forward.
Also, I never said women couldn’t preach, I said, women are not to teach men. And I don’t understand how someone could argue with these passages; “1 Timothy 2:11 – 14 which reads, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
or 1 Corinthians 11:7 – 10 which reads, “For a man ought not to wear anything on his head [in church], for he is the image and [reflected] glory of God [his function of government reflects the majesty of the divine Rule]; but woman is [the expression of] man’s glory (majesty, preeminence). For man was not [created] from woman, but woman from man; Neither was man created on account of or for the benefit of woman, but woman on account of and for the benefit of man. Therefore she should [be subject to his authority and should] have a covering on her head [as a token, a symbol, of her submission to authority, [c]that she may show reverence as do] the angels [and not displease them].”
That’s pretty straight forward. And I just find it hard to fathom that in certain cities there are churches full of women only and no men there who also love God.
I’m in no way saying that women are beneath men, I’m just saying there’s an order. Just like men are responsible for things of the household, I believe the man is to take all the blame for things, and if things go right, it was a joint effort. I also believe that women play an important role because if men could do it all, there would be no need for women. Bottom line, men and women both have equal importance, just different roles to play for a harmonious household. If you have both playing the same role, 50% of the job isn’t getting done.
7. Tom | December 1, 2008 at 12:45 am
Agreed. We shouldn’t be pushovers. I should maybe clarify my believes to, just incase I wasn’t as clear as I thought I was before. I don’t think women should be allowed to teach men but they are allowed to serve the church in other capacities. I also gave my Junia example with the assumption that the person is female to kinda illustrate my point. I’m still up in the air on the person’s gender.
8. chrish103 | December 1, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Cool, I’m glad it’s cleared up. I just want everyone to know what I believe, I definitely don’t have a “cave man” mentality. I just know women shouldn’t teach men, but they can do everything else. It even makes sense in a non-Christian life as well. Women tend to be more emotional because of their child-bearing gift. A man can’t nurture a child like a woman can, so it’s natural and makes sense for them to be more emotional and have more sensitive hormones.
Now logically, it would be easier for a woman to teach a girl how to be a woman, and a man to teach a boy how to be a man. They both understand what feelings, and what responsibilities the two children will go through.
9. Brian | December 15, 2008 at 3:32 am
I dont believe women should be excluded from preaching or publicly acknowleging the doctrines of scripture.
It seems to me, however, that the gender of “Junia” is probably the hinge that either opens or closes the door to women in the governance role of elder. Personally I see no evidence to support women in eldership. The above example is very thin to say the least.